Author Topic: Perfect Dark Discoveries (Read 3643 times)

Wouter Jansen · « **on:** July 05, 2003, 08:17:00 am »

ok, I don't know if these were seriously discovered before but I found them out on my own and never heard of them before:

1. Have the door opened after the 1st lift in Maian SOS - Shoot about 10 bullets like where I do in my vids. Like, halfway the hallway before the 35 door. So shoot at about 32 till 33 I believe.

2. *yet to try out if this is right, but I have a feeling it has to be*
Defense. Cloaking makes you go slower. Reason why I think it does -
Defense Agent - I don't use cloaking, have 26 comp, have 37 uplink, time difference 11 seconds.
Defense SA - I use cloaking, have 1:03 comp, have 1:15 uplink, time difference 12 seconds! The only thing I do different to agent is, as you might have guessed, the cloaking.
ALSO - I started the combat boost in SA at the same moment every time, yet every time it stops way earlier, like halfway the part where you right strafe, as for agent it stops when I start left strafing, thus am turning already. I'm gonna try out without cloaking on SA, possibly this might make 1:31 cake and 1:30 a possible goal for me now even with my sucky beginnings.

I'll post more discoveries when I find them, everyone else may post theirs. So we get a little bit of credit and people know who actually found them out

Your Eliteness · « **Reply #1 on:** July 05, 2003, 08:27:00 am »

If you want to test out that RC-P120 thing, try it in multiplayer. Have a race with two people (same character), one using cloak and one without.

I think I know why that Maian SOS thing happens...

You alert a guard on the other side of the wall. He runs and tries to get as close to you as possible. He runs past the first elevator and opens the door, so he can be standing near the corridor w/ vent that you run through. Therefore the door is open by the time you get there.

Also, this is a thought that I had today: Maybe the NTSC Invest cinema is 2 seconds longer than PAL. Meaning that's why the Agent bots come 2 seconds faster. Someone should use a stopwatch to time them.

That's only an idea.

SamSim · « **Reply #2 on:** July 05, 2003, 08:35:00 am »

The man raises an excellent point.

ShadowZero64 · « **Reply #3 on:** July 05, 2003, 09:57:00 am »

1. was made public by me first, to my knowledge.

renemesis · « **Reply #4 on:** July 05, 2003, 01:49:00 pm »

Oh yeah, cause all NTSC bots come super fast. :rolleyes

Wouter Jansen · « **Reply #5 on:** July 05, 2003, 02:59:00 pm »

but Jim, can YOU get it consistently working on Agent? You had it rarely happening on SA even, so I heard. I get it pretty often.

ShadowZero64 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 05, 2003, 05:38:00 pm »

No, but I never said I could

I just said that I was the first one to announce that I had got it to work

I have never got it to work on A and only twice on SA, I think it's my cartridge or something.

Wouter Jansen · « **Reply #7 on:** July 05, 2003, 06:52:00 pm »

so in conclusion,

you didn't have a serious discovery, it was just one of those "must be my game" occurances

aka, you didn't figure out what caused it, you couldn't figure out how to get it to happen more often.

Suicide-Eagle · « **Reply #8 on:** July 05, 2003, 07:19:00 pm »

I was the first to realise the lift could just barely be made on Maian SOS Agent on PAL. I retimed the cinema and looked through the walls with the farsight and realised it may be possible to get there for 1:18ish with a good first lift. Sadly, I never got a run out of it as it is practically impossible for me. Only got it once in about 3000 attempts so something has to be up there doesn't it...

Whoa! it's not that I suck... well... I do. This is probably my most played level in the game. I can get to the hole for the required target time. I'm reaching the 1st lift at a time equal to videos that do make the lift. Difference being that their lift is just opening, mine is 3/4 open. I'm going to get Phil Hughes to test this out for me when he comes over. If it's just my suckage then he should have no problem getting it.
Actually. Most of that stuff about how I AM reaching the lift is incorrect. Should be USED TO reach the lift as I don't play anymore.

Wouter Jansen · « **Reply #9 on:** July 06, 2003, 06:19:00 am »

I make it like every time.

ShadowZero64 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 06, 2003, 07:25:00 am »

Who doesn't?

JugadorJ3 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 06, 2003, 07:35:00 am »

Wouter: Do you know of the strat where you shoot to make the 1st lift come fast? I assume you do, but still; worth asking.

Your Eliteness · « **Reply #12 on:** July 06, 2003, 07:42:00 am »

That's on SA. On Agent, it makes the guy open the door. I'm not sure why the guard doesn't called the lift and Agent though.

Dark0Perfection · « **Reply #13 on:** July 06, 2003, 09:47:00 am »

I was asking wouter about that strat on AIM and I watched his videos and he has never used it. Maybe you don't need the strat.

Wouter Jansen · « **Reply #14 on:** July 06, 2003, 10:48:00 am »

what do you mean with a faster lift? that it closes on you instead of having to close it yourself at the exact right time?
tell me what you mean and when you shoot and where, I want to try it out. I also got another new trick (heard it from someone), which I'll use to make it easier to improve. I hope.

Your Eliteness · « **Reply #15 on:** July 06, 2003, 09:24:00 pm »

SE, do you cut the cinema asap?

JugadorJ3 · « **Reply #16 on:** July 07, 2003, 03:45:00 am »

Yeah, the one where it closes on you, wouter. What's this other new thingy-tricky then?

Wouter Jansen · « **Reply #17 on:** July 07, 2003, 05:08:00 pm »

shooting faster.

anyway, mind telling me how to get the lift to exactly close on you?

Suicide-Eagle · « **Reply #18 on:** July 07, 2003, 08:35:00 pm »

YE. Yeah, I cut it straight away so the lift gets minimum movement while I'm not making progress towards it. But I'm guessing I'm just too slow. But I still want Phil to test it.

Not-so-Perfect-Dark · « **Reply #19 on:** July 14, 2003, 09:08:00 pm »

Just so you know (newer players), there is a faster way to do the pillars on Ruins (all 3 settings) than they way that we know as the "fastest." It's much harder, but I don't think it's as rare, so who knows.
I used it on all 3 of my current times, and that's what I have 2/3 WRs. Should have 3, but I messed up my PA run on the army part.
If you don't know it, ask me on AIM, and I will try to explain it...if all else fails, I will magically find a controller (steal it from somewhere) and get one on tape, and if I do, I might even get some more WRs on tape, which I have been planning for...100 years.

Dark0Perfection · « **Reply #20 on:** July 14, 2003, 09:13:00 pm »

Actually Josh, I think I know what you are talking about, I have wused it with slow-mo but find it incredibly difficult to do fast. What is your AIM?

PDplum · « **Reply #21 on:** July 15, 2003, 08:55:00 am »

1 more post for me
it is:: drumroll
josh heuer

goldenvinze · « **Reply #22 on:** July 15, 2003, 10:01:00 am »

I'm guessing which pillars you're talking about : the first one at the beginning , the one that you normally hit by throwing the bug over the wall (the last one on the normal strat , except that here you don't aim it from the same place) , and the one where a skedar with a gay reaper is standing in front of it , on the right intersection just before the way to the bridge.You stand on that intersection and aim for the two pillars from here.Looks hard to do...

Not-so-Perfect-Dark · « **Reply #23 on:** July 15, 2003, 05:12:00 pm »

Close...but not quite the same second one you mentioned. Instead of using the last one of the usual strat, you use the second one of the usual strat. When you turn the corner, instead of going around the wall and hitting that, you stay where you are, and throw over the wall at it, then just turn left and go to the long hallway, and throw the bug from as far back as possible (can be pretty far if you know how to do it right).

It's pretty hard, but I have done it plenty of times now, and can do it more easily. I will make a video of me doing it sometime if i ever get a controller, because i probably am not explaining it good enough.

vitor · « **Reply #24 on:** July 15, 2003, 06:48:00 pm »

im sure that many ppl know that strat for ages.. i've tried it a few times but found it too gay to pr with, and so did everybody else. if ur tellin the truth u must've tried that a LOT to achieve those wr's.. it'd be cool if u tape/capture that pillar throwing (doing it fast tho).

Not-so-Perfect-Dark · « **Reply #25 on:** July 15, 2003, 10:45:00 pm »

Ohh don't worry, if you know how to do it right, you can probably jump across the bridge at (my memory might be a bit off, correct me if I'm wrong) as low as a high 27, usually 28.
It's been a while, so maybe I'm wrong, but that's the time that seems to be in my head...

It is hard to pull off, it takes a lot of patience and practice (practice comes as rare as the setup does, of course, as you can't practice without the setup too much, with lack of bugs to throw, and not knowing if you actually hit the pillar, etc.)

Anyways, I suggest you not try it unless you are really patient and want to really go for the WR, otherwise you might as well do the other way, which is only a little slower but obviously easier.

deletedprofile.u · « **Reply #26 on:** July 16, 2003, 03:09:00 am »

I did that over a year ago and got 1:13 with it. I gayed up at the end and lost about 2.5 seconds.

Meanwhile I've known, and so have many other people about that strat for like 2 years.

-Karl

Not-so-Perfect-Dark · « **Reply #27 on:** July 16, 2003, 06:26:00 am »

How long you have known the strat is not the point. I'm just trying to get the strat more out, since it's not too well known, because of its difficulty.

I was trying to let the good new people (bosshardt, wouter, etc.) know in case they didn't, maybe they might try with it and tie my times.

deletedprofile.u · « **Reply #28 on:** July 16, 2003, 08:13:00 am »

It's pretty hard to tie times that don't exist :lol

-Karl

SXR · « **Reply #29 on:** July 16, 2003, 01:46:00 pm »

I used both strats going for better times, but I found that the new one was slower for me since I went to far to throw the last bug. Normally enter the cliff at 23, but with the 2nd one at 24 instead.

Not-so-Perfect-Dark · « **Reply #30 on:** July 25, 2003, 07:37:00 pm »

"It's pretty hard to tie times that don't exist"

That's why no one has tied yours yet, they are made up scores.

It is obvious that you have lied about at least some of your times, even with proof you are still a liar.

Anyways, here is another "discovery"...

A while back, vinze pointed out the 'going through locked doors' trick. All you had to do was lure someone near a door, sometimes disarm them. They will occasionally (err...rarely) open the door for you. People pointed out all the doors in every level that would be helpful if you could get it opened.
Mainly, Rescue (or something...) on PA, and Investigation on all 3 settings, although you would probably only survive on agent...but one that I mentioned (that has potential still) was in Villa. After you start the level and shoot the snipeheads, and run to the building, you enter the door...instead of going the normal way, go right, towards the couch. There is 2 guys by here, and one is near the door. I have got this guy to open the door for me, and if you could do it fast, it *might*, *might* save some time, as it leads to stairs right by the kitchen. I suggest some people give this a shot, or even check how long it takes from, ie, the door to the kitchen stairs, and the door to the kitchen stairs via guy opening door, and see if it is faster, as I cannot try it.

goldenvinze · « **Reply #31 on:** July 26, 2003, 05:58:00 am »

"rarely" isn't the exact term.I just was too lazy to try Rescue PA more than 2 tries , but if somebody find the faith to go through that gay level following my strat , under 3:00 here should be no contest.

Not-so-Perfect-Dark · « **Reply #32 on:** July 26, 2003, 09:09:00 am »

Actually, I was more referring it to Villa, as I had really only tried it on that level. I never even attempted it on Rescue, but did manage it a few times on Villa, never on good runs though.

deletedprofile.u · « **Reply #33 on:** July 26, 2003, 10:21:00 am »

It's not faster.

-Karl

Not-so-Perfect-Dark · « **Reply #34 on:** October 12, 2003, 11:02:00 am »

Might as well bring this up instead of make a new topic:

It's possible to take out 3 pillar things at the end of Ruins in one "shooting session."

pwned.com.net/wtf

Wouter Jansen · « **Reply #35 on:** October 12, 2003, 11:17:00 am »

let me guess that would take off like a nice 3 seconds on normal mode on each difficulty?

Not-so-Perfect-Dark · « **Reply #36 on:** October 12, 2003, 12:01:00 pm »

Basically, we shoot the first 2 at the same time, then do the next 3 individually, making 5 total. This way, you do 3 in 1, then last 2 individual...making 3 sets of shots. So yea, probably 2-3 seconds saved.

Wouter Jansen · « **Reply #37 on:** October 12, 2003, 01:36:00 pm »

That's what I thought, except than that the first makes a total of 4

deletedprofile.u · « **Reply #38 on:** October 12, 2003, 08:00:00 pm »

How do you do it?

-Karl

Dark0Perfection · « **Reply #39 on:** October 12, 2003, 08:18:00 pm »

I'm guessing you double crouch and shoot 2 on one side and the high one on the other side.

Not-so-Perfect-Dark · « **Reply #40 on:** October 12, 2003, 09:28:00 pm »

No; it's a bit hard.

Instead of going to the right side, go to the left.

I'm not sure of the exact aiming spot, but the pillar you see is very big; don't aim way to the botton; aim to the far right, and slightly up a bit. I've done it twice, and I'll try to do it again on tape.

ExpertGamer64 · « **Reply #41 on:** October 13, 2003, 09:06:00 pm »

Its also possible to shoot the pillars on the right, then the pillars on the left, then the middle. Making it 3 times too.

Another way is also shooting the bottom 2, then the middle 2, then the top one.

And finally, you could shoot diagonally from bottom up, meaning shoot the bottom right and top left, then the same for the other side. Bottom Left and top right. Then finally the middle.

After doing all of them, I came to the conclusion that the way we do it now is the least random of them all. The reason its random is because with the Callisto on High Impact shells, it doesn't hit same spot every time. It moves its alignment every so often. For both to fall, you have to pray that for each shot that hits the closer one, it goes through and hits the one behind it. If too many hit the front and not the back, there's the randomness.

Not-so-Perfect-Dark · « **Reply #42 on:** October 13, 2003, 09:19:00 pm »

Yea, but if you don't get three this way, it will almost always get 2...The only thing is, it's a diagonal one, so you would have to hit the bottom right + top left diagonal for it to be more effective than the normal way...
But still, if you can hit 3 in one try, it's good.

Your Eliteness · « **Reply #43 on:** October 14, 2003, 01:44:00 am »

Okay, I think I've figured out what makes NTSC > PAL on Invest.

I think NTSC consoles have a smaller cache size than PAL consoles. If an item is in view, or just around the corner, it's in RAM. If it's a bit further away, it's in cache. If it's even further away, then it's not in the game's memory, and the game must load it from the cart in order to display it. So, for the majority of the level, the bot is in cache. If you find a way to fill up the cache with other stuff, the bot is deleted from the game's memory. The game knows the bot's rough location, and will load it when you get near. Understand? Too bad.

Shooting the Falcon 2 creates bullet holes in the walls. The bullet holes and their locations are stored in the cache. Also, in SA, you're never looking in the bot's general direction because it's behind you. So the bot has less chance of being loaded into cache/RAM. Hence why I can get fast bots on SA - I never look at the bot or it's general location.

Now on Agent it's a different story. For the whole level, you're heading towards the bot. So you're facing the bot, and therefore it's loaded into cache/RAM. So the game is keeping track of it, and it goes slower. I've just spent 15 mins playing Invest Agent and never looking at the bot (running backwards :hat

) while firing my F2, I got 3 1:34s. Most likely because I was entering the room at 0:35 when it's usually 0:30. I think the time which you enter the room also affects the bot.

So what makes NTSC > PAL on this level is the fact (Well it's not a fact, but I think it's true) that NTSC has a smaller cache size. It's easier to have the bot deleted from memory. So when the bot is loaded again, the game knows it's general location and loads it in. Sometimes it's a bit wrong.

In case you have no idea what the hell I'm talking about, imagine throwing the bug on Infiltration SA/PA. You throw the bug perfectly and run away. The objective fails. The bug was deleted from RAM, and from cache, so the game didn't notice it was landing. It just went "Hey, they don't have a bug, it's not on the dish, and it's not in mid air so I'll fail this objective." The bug was no where, deleted from the game's memory.

This is also why looking at Jon in Escape makes him run faster.

Nintendo.com has technical info about the N64, but it doesn't mention cache. Then again, it's doesn't mention RAM either, but we all know the jumper pack has 4MB and the expansion pack has 8MB. They are RAM. Maybe the N64 doesn't have cache, and just runs off RAM instead. Makes more sense about the bug throwing thing. If there is cache, it's a very small amount.

So if anyone in the Elite feels like cheating their way to low Invest times, just underclock your expansion pack somehow.

Imperfect Clark · « **Reply #44 on:** October 14, 2003, 03:01:00 am »

Wow, incredible findings/conclusions. This is the first valid explanation I've seen as to why NTSC might have an advantage over PAL (in that PAL is bogged down by greater RAM/cache activity).

It would help us greatly if we could determine conclusively that the game clock is completely independent of the engine itself.

Either way, I hope this information leads to improvements in strategy on not only Investigation, but other levels in which this may apply. However, I don't wish for this to spark some absurd PAL/NTSC debate for the billionth time, because we still have very limited information. We have seen videos of the same times achieved on the same levels but different systems on countless occasions, and it was never near the point where we could definitely say "that one is slower, but registers the same time". A split rankings would be a nightmare, so if you don't mind, I'm suspending any action and just going to look at your findings from the perspective that they may be used to better our times. No more conspiracy theories, please.

Not-so-Perfect-Dark · « **Reply #45 on:** October 14, 2003, 07:42:00 am »

Just so you know, there already is a pretty consistent way to get 50-51 bots...

Your Eliteness · « **Reply #46 on:** October 14, 2003, 07:46:00 am »

Mind sharing?

bcks · « **Reply #47 on:** October 14, 2003, 08:08:00 am »

I think its like go to the nearest video game rental place, and rent a pd copy, and hope it has faster bots then yours does. :lol

Not-so-Perfect-Dark · « **Reply #48 on:** October 14, 2003, 04:50:00 pm »

No...As far as I know, it works on every cart for both both PAL and NTSC...I haven't tried it myself on PAL seeing as I currently don't have one, but have told the strat to someone (who does not come here) and he got a 51 bot his first try...
I'll post it soon, but I was really hoping to figure out why it seems to work, and if there is any small modifications I could make to make it just a bit faster...If so, 1:29 wouldn't be too far off.

Not-so-Perfect-Dark · « **Reply #49 on:** October 16, 2003, 02:51:00 pm »

Haven't tested this myself, but I thought of it yesterday while playing.

Escape A/SA/PA Faster finish

Remember, I haven't had time to test this myself, but it seems reasonable...
When the meeting starts, push Jon. Then when he gets off the wall, grab the hoverbike, take it to the top of the ramp, and go push Jon a bit more, like to the bottom of the ramp. Get on the bike, you should be able to leave later than usual.."But we can't leave you behind!" is the normal line, so you could probably leave at the next line, "There must be a way out of here." Anyways, get on, take off, and you can hit the button from on the bike, then you can turn around and zoom to the second button, which seems like it saves at least a second if done right, the only part where it is saving time is from computer 1 to computer 2, since you have to wait to do the first computer anyways.

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Author Topic: Perfect Dark Discoveries (Read 3643 times)

renemesis

JugadorJ3

JugadorJ3