Author Topic: Why isn't Clemens activated?  (Read 1151 times)

octoinky

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Why isn't Clemens activated?
« on: October 13, 2007, 02:53:00 am »
Seriously, wtf?  This is the worst bias simply based on the character of an eliter I've seen here in a long time.


He just provided whoards of proof, and only gets those times added?  WTF do you think is going on?  He lied about 1 time and took it down before it even got on the ranks, and you think his few remaining random unproved times are fake?  Plenty of other players have done what he did, even had fake times hit the rankings without this retarded of a "punishment."


He has enough proof, just as much as many other players; Boss' newer times aren't proved, etc.  Boss just met him, Clemens just proved himself to the rest of us, the dude is obviously legit, he deserves to have #2 on the rankings.  He is dedicated, PRing at will, and provided evidence that he is capable of every time he has claimed.  What stunt do you think he is pulling, he is, in my opinion, the most impressive player the-elite has EVER seen.


Clean up your act admins.  If your proof policy allows for this subjective/situational of punishment, why did you even make it?  And if it doesn't, then don't make a policy you can't follow.  In EITHER case, its a giant load of horsecrap, and Clemens deserves to be on the rankings.

RWG

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Why isn't Clemens activated?
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2007, 02:58:00 am »
Even when Clemens' times were taken down, it was done very erratically, with some unprovens staying up, and some being taken down.  I remember specifically Bunker 1 00A 1:04 was up the whole time, but Silo 00A 1:33 got removed.  That's pretty inconsistent and very strange given what he was punished for, especially comparing the two times.

I lied and you gave me another chance.  Mouser lied and you gave him another chance.  Ace has lied several times and nothing was done about it (bcks and I talked to him personally to get him to fix it.)  So why can't we just give Clemens another chance and let him control his own times page?

Keeping a lie on the ranks only renders 1 level to be inaccurate, but not putting up legit times on the ranks cause several ranks, possibly the entire system to be inaccurate.

I hope you guys can make the smart choice.
"I want to be defined by the things that I love. Not the things I'm afraid of, or the things that haunt me in the middle of the night.  I just think that, you are what you love."  Taylor Swift, Daylight.

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Matt-Cook1

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Why isn't Clemens activated?
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2007, 03:25:00 am »
If you're written any political criticisms or observations i'd love to read them as well, octo.

Your Eliteness

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Why isn't Clemens activated?
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2007, 04:23:00 am »
Octo, if you have problems with the way things are run around here then you can go register your own domain name, set up your own website, create your own updating program, get your own members, set up your own forums, devote thousands of hours of your life, pay financial costs, and make your own rules. Until then, shut up and let the people in charge run things the way they want them to be run (and yes, we are discussing it).

Don't complain about the fact that he has to prove his times. Someone ranked 2nd should have proof for every single one of his times, regardless of whether he's lied or not. Once all of this times are proven, the only difference is that he won't be able to update his own page. This right may eventually be returned to him.

I requested a list of all proven times that Clemens had. Clemens also gave me a list of times he had on tape and were about to be proven (Bunker 1 00 included). All of these times were put on his page. Silo 00A was not on either of these lists. If a time is missing from the lists, he's welcome to let me know and I'll add it to his page. Any times on his page that aren't proven by the 27th of October will be removed.

Perhaps you should all think about the consequences before you "claim a time before you get it" or blatantly lie to the Elite.

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Why isn't Clemens activated?
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2007, 04:42:00 am »
Try this stat: GE's top 15 + Clemens and whether or not they are 60/60 proven.

Clemens no
Boss no
Goose no
Illu yes
Ace yes
Dan no
Wouter yes
Glen no
Leonardo no
Alex yes
Mouser no
Henrik no
Trent no
Jimbo no
Eddie no
Guillherme no



I guess something's wrong?  I wonder why all of the best Goldeneye 007 players in the world don't have proof for all their times!  I wonder why none of the top players are even upset at the others for not having full proof!

Stick with one argument.  You should either reduce all of us to provens only or you should stop bashing Clemens just because you don't like him.
"I want to be defined by the things that I love. Not the things I'm afraid of, or the things that haunt me in the middle of the night.  I just think that, you are what you love."  Taylor Swift, Daylight.

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octoinky

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Why isn't Clemens activated?
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2007, 04:55:00 am »
I've been here longer than you, seen this place go through more transitions, and I've been here long enough to know that you didn't start this place, didn't move us to automated rankings, didn't create the main webpage, didn't start the boards, and that nobody likes you.


I don't know who put you in charge, but just because your name is on the webpages and you've "put in 1000s of hours into the-elite" doesn't mean that your decisions are GOOD.  You might have been given the power to make them (yes, GIVEN, you weren't even close to a founder of this place), but that doesn't make you some sort of God.


Nearly everybody here has put in 1000s of hours to make the-elite a better place.  From gaming to the community, the-elite is about US.  We'd be here either way (see:  Wes' hand updated rankings) - we update our own side leagues for various games, and spend hours creating genuine connections both inside and outside of gaming.  Not to mention, we contribute financially (see:  Derek has a SURPLUS of money).


If you want to be a good administrator, which quite frankly I don't think you care about, you should listen to what people have to say.  I think anybody who has ever succeeded in management completely disagrees with your pitiful quote:  "Until then, shut up and let the people in charge run things the way they want them to be run."  If you don't want to listen to what people have to say, then at least be consistent and don't be so hypocritical (see: Goose's above post).


--


On topic!  Clemens should have to prove himself, yes!  OH WAIT, HE DID.  FFS, if he needs 60/60, then everybody else does.  He is a legit player.  You are a good speedrunner, you know it is near-impossible (and very far from ideal) for him to re-get all of his old times.  And don't just say "he should have been taping."  He taped a ton of times, and everybody is missing proof.

A logical response to the situation would be to say no NEW PRs without proof, but based on his most recent evidence, he is reinstated with babysitting.

Why isn't Clemens activated?
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2007, 05:09:00 am »
Octo, what are your intentions?  What is your personal desire to have him put back on the rankings?  Why does it matter so much to you?

octoinky

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Why isn't Clemens activated?
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2007, 05:22:00 am »
I've been here for 7 years, seen a lot of poor decisions made, and constantly feel that the general public of the-elite, while we're the ones who keep this place going, are mistreated and misjudged by the administration.  There is no room for error here, no second chances, nothing.  However nobody is perfect, between lying scum, chatters only, standard players and administration.


I believe in an accurate rankings system and fair treatment of all eliters, and while Clemens might not be everybodies favorite person, he is a damn good player and deserves to be #2 on the rankings.  Nothing is accurate until his times are reinstated, which is completely contradictory to what YE is trying to solve here.

----

More directly:


My intentions are to get Clemens back on the rankings, nothing else.  It is difficult for me to be short when discussing the subject of administration, it is just something that bothers me.

I have no PERSONAL desire - I've never said a word to Clemens in my life, and in fact didn't respect him as a gamer until just a few months ago.

It matters to me because after months of Clemens *obviously* being the 2nd best player, he finally completes a time set to become ranked #2.  He meets with the worlds #1, sends out proof tapes, and is rolled back to old times within a week.  I'm not as knowledgeable as the players here, but I enjoy following the rankings as I have for over 7 years, and its painful to see such mistreatment.



Why isn't Clemens activated?
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2007, 05:29:00 am »
Ahh, I agree with you.

octoinky

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Why isn't Clemens activated?
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2007, 05:34:00 am »
Also, I overreact to things during times I *should* be asleep.

bcks

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Why isn't Clemens activated?
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2007, 05:52:00 am »
Quote
Quote:
I lied and you gave me another chance. Mouser lied and you gave him another chance. Ace has lied several times and nothing was done about it (bcks and I talked to him personally to get him to fix it.) So why can't we just give Clemens another chance and let him control his own times page?


Maybe those guys are liked by people in control, and maybe other people aren't liked by people in control. Maybe thats why some people get 2nd chances and some don't.


I really wish all liers would lose control of there times page, if they fuck up 1 time. I'm tired of liers poping up every few months.


In the past liers got kicked out of the rankings right octo? Would you rather have it that way again? Having there proven times up is better then nothing for them imo.

Henning Blom

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Why isn't Clemens activated?
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2007, 05:53:00 am »
You top players sucks! at making proof, lame.


Wouter Jansen

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Why isn't Clemens activated?
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2007, 06:06:00 am »
lol those people arguing here for Clemens-love-making aren't even inline with themselves.
most impressive player ever? and YOU have been around all this time? that truly doesn't show, all that saying that shows is how you must secretly long for Clemens his love.
you guys fail to see that whatever happens, rankings will be inaccurate. your actions are totally pointless.
being 60/60 proven isn't only about having the proof available. when you know a player will eventually prove everything he has claimed thus far, there's no need to worry about anything. but if someone clearly states something wasn't taped, then he better make sure it will be, or else we might as well put magic numbers on the rankings.

and what's that nonsense about near-impossible to reget something? if it's THAT unlikely of a time to get, only MORE reason to not allow it without proof. if you decide to not tape or tape over or tape at the end of a tape so the end of the run is missing due to sudden rewinding, you got to face the consequences. if you can't, why don't you go and play Bond on the elite and run through the world killing all these eliters you hate so much.

besides the point, Clemens IS a baby. he's ragging things on the boards daily and can't be honest about much. when he can't get a time in 5 minutes, he claims it's insanely incredible and ntsc disadvantaged etc. then he gets it the next day.

you can't EVER fairly treat everyone. some people don't give a @#%$ about proof at all, many half-ass it, and a few are die-hard about proof. there's always people that don't like how things are run, what the rules are etc. now this person is you. ooooooo I feel for you it must suck so bad, cry, cry, cry harder.

so, in the end, this is all because you want your lover back on the rankings eh? OH WAIT, HE IS ON THE RANKINGS. Problem solved, go home everyone.
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Illu

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Why isn't Clemens activated?
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2007, 06:16:00 am »
ACTIVATE THE NUCLEAR... oh, I mean Clemens, it's called Clemens, ACTIVATE IT.. no wait don't, IT WILL MEAN THE END OF THE WORLD!!!!

Why isn't Clemens activated?
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2007, 06:36:00 am »
I have a hard time following you Wouter...Your points...your arguments...they seem to lead nowhere!  What the hell are you getting at, sir?  You don't seem to understand the point Octo is making.  He's arguing this on an issue of fairness.  Basically, rankings moderators have made a choice in the past about someone in Case A and they were given no consequences, and now Clemens is under this same Case A and he is only allowed proven times.
Simply speaking: "Hey mods, if you make a rule, stick to it."

AEB

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Why isn't Clemens activated?
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2007, 07:01:00 am »
Totally agree that Clemens should be on the ranks.

sooo.... Activate!

Wouter Jansen

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Why isn't Clemens activated?
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2007, 07:13:00 am »
are you all stupid? he IS on the rankings and IF we followed the rules that we used in the past, everyone would be lying their ass off and have no proof. very likely. look PAST the past, the time is NOW. just because people used to have different laws in the past doesn't mean they should still apply.

ps. I think din mor should be on the rankings. so get to it!
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Red Bull

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Why isn't Clemens activated?
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2007, 07:26:00 am »
I think nobody isn't lying anymore, because there is like a small bunch of players left who actually care about the ranks. So I think it's safe to activate Clemens again.

Anyway, I am not going to argue with the admins/moderators/whatevers; it's their job.

Henning Blom

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Why isn't Clemens activated?
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2007, 07:44:00 am »
Man, Clemens have maybe 30 pr's proved, thats good enough for a 2nd rank world player? I dont think it is, thats the kind of proof top 50 players have and it seems to me he isnt even trying to reget some of the "overtaped" runs. Goose is working on getting out provens, and is like 50+/60 proven and Im pretty sure he will be 60/60 one day. We all know Bryan have his runs on tape, and we will get to see those runs. Besides, why doesnt Bryan makes those mistakes like overtaping his runs, thats maybe becuase Bryan is careful, and maybe tapes them to a "mastertape" right away so theres no risk for overtaping and rewinds the rape when it starts to get to its end.

Even I is 60/60 and if Im not I will make those runs someday, only mistake Ive done so far was removing a Train SA 1.32 from the dvd recorder wich was one of my better pr's, but I actually played to get it again (as this was a 90+ pointer) and now I have it up and even improved it.

Only accurate rankings is the proven rankings, even if its not updated in a year, IMO world ranking sucks, way too many unproven world records and pr's.

Of course, it doesnt matter much not haveing like a 70 pointer not on video but higher should be a must. I could easily claim 90 pointers here and there, maybe a wr or two, and not providing any proof, and get to be like top 5 with 40/60 proved. The fact that I have many "good" pr's already on vid would make everyone trust me if I just say "Nah, sorry man, Ive overtaped it, but I will try to reget it on tape/video later". Get my point? Not that I dont trust Clemens, but videos is still a must.

Administrators is not doing a great job. Put up a note of what pr/wr a player claimed, and if its like 90 points or more, ask for proof (if its recorded or not), if the player says it is recorded, it will come with the next batch of tapes, if not then take it down. If a player says its not recorded, then just take it down right away. Its stupid let having a depot 43 up when obviouvlsy theres no proof for it (considering this is a world record etc). Players with DVD recorders could have a 28 days rule.

Red Bull

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« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2007, 07:49:00 am »
The fact that a lot of people assume other players are lying is weird.

Henning Blom

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« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2007, 08:15:00 am »
The fact that top players are poorly proved is more of a fact than the assume you just did. I mean, I trust them all, the top10, I have no reason not to and Im sure (when everyone above want Clemens back 100%) almost everyone else trusts them, but vids ppl, a vid is the best trust ever and you can be 100%? sure that the claimed time was gotten. You cant when theres no vid, no matter if you trust the player or not.

Or then I might just as well change all my times to wr's because everyone trusts me and noone's ever lies anymore, so you have to trust me! :evil

AEB

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Why isn't Clemens activated?
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2007, 08:48:00 am »
Wouters mor should definitely be on the ranks with all the tapes she have made.

Seriously, I think Clemens should have all his times up now. But not forever without proving it. Of course he should prove his times, but he can't do it at lightning speed.
And it was very stupid about him lying, but the time didn't get on the ranks and if he's got more than 1 brain cell in his brain, he won't do it again.

Now I'll shut the @#%$ up.The only reason I post right now is because I've got nothing better to do.

Wouter Jansen

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Why isn't Clemens activated?
« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2007, 09:27:00 am »
also, if people cared so much they would buy dvd recorders or whatever else to get their vids online faster than having to send tapes. so far there's maybe 10 people that care enough.

on that note, I'd like to say I love Swedes.
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ShadowZero64

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Why isn't Clemens activated?
« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2007, 09:59:00 am »
All of top 10 should only be allowed to have times up that they have on vids of or on tape.

Infected Mind

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« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2007, 10:48:00 am »
Clemens should definately be on the rankings as #2 with all times up.

The elite is run very poorly (ATM), and I'd rather see someone like Octo as a Mod, because A) he actually cares, and B) He's actually knowledgable about being a Mod, and C) He actually contributes things (those POM write-ups and such) (Updating isn't contributing because anyone can update, just look at any random league). I'm sure there are other eliters who would be good as well im just using octo as an example of what a good mod would be. I

've talked to many eliters about how the mods here are terrible, inconsistant, picking and choosing which rules to follow etc. The rankings are completely innaccurate, and thats frustrating as a player.
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Lark

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Why isn't Clemens activated?
« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2007, 10:55:00 am »
Quote
Quote:
I've been here longer than you, seen this place go through more transitions, and I've been here long enough to know that you didn't start this place, didn't move us to automated rankings, didn't create the main webpage, didn't start the boards, and that nobody likes you.


There's just too much truth in that statement.

I think Clemens has proven himself as a trustworthy player. Players in the past have made more severe mistakes and haven't even been punished for it. I just think the majority of mods are plain jealous of his dedication and potential. As a result we get some retarded bias treatment against him.
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Wouter Jansen

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Why isn't Clemens activated?
« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2007, 11:42:00 am »
just because the current person that is most involved in running the rankings now can't spend all his time in being accurate in applying rules instantly, doesn't mean someone like octo could do it because of his 8 arms. if we just let things like this slip, people will start thinking mildly and stop caring, since obviously, we don't care about proof then, and thus they can do whatever they wish after they just give that little bit of proof to become trusted. this is why these arguments exist in the first place. rather than letting Clem back all-in, all other douchebags that have EVER claimed something they didn't have (yet), should be put to proven-only state. that would be fair treatment, though I'm sure it will cause even more whining but that's cool. at least many think it is cool, since why else would they whine?

also, you guys only look from your own perspective. just because you guys have found trust in certain players, doesn't mean there should be WRs up on the rankings, for the whole world to see, yet totally destroying the whole idea of what we are about if there's no video to accompany it.

Quote
Quote:
"0:54 FACULTY 00 AGENTS, YA RIHGT!!! U R GAY!1"

Pardon? Were you wondering how we know these times are valid, and if they're truly world records?

Top players are required to send video proof by mail to those of us in charge. All players are monitored closely, and suspicious times are easily noticed and quickly addressed. Players who refuse to provide proof when requested are removed.

this needs to be adjusted, if not removed. for one thing, players don't get removed anymore, only rolled back to proven only. Also, I often ask people for proof and the response I get is still too often in the lines of "no can do, no no taped", which would mean removal of the time proof was requested for, but I don't see that happening..

those players that play with fire, are lucky they can still get away with it. but when an octo comes and tells us to just be ok with that and risk the house to set on fire, I'd rather stick to a short aussie with some better reasoning behind his actions.
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Your Eliteness

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Why isn't Clemens activated?
« Reply #27 on: October 13, 2007, 12:22:00 pm »
There are two issues here. One is the action taken on Clemens for lying, the other is the fact that he had little proof. Then there's the combination of the two, that being that all of his untaped/unprovens were taken offline at once, making him lose about 25 ranks. This makes it appear to be a very harsh move.

Ryan:
Your list shows that 4 people in the top 10 have all 60 of their times proven. Boss will have all 60 of his times proven again soon as well. The others are close to having 60/60. "None" of the top players were upset about the others not having proof because they have provided proof in the past and can be trusted that all good times will be captured. If someone said they got an untied and "forgot to tape" then I'm sure many people would kick up a stink.

And I don't dislike Clemens, nor do I have any bias against him whatsoever. He's been talking to me on AIM and he's a co-operative, friendly guy.

Octo:
I never stated I was there since the beginning, did it all my self, or intended to imply either of those. Obviously what we have today is the combined effort of many people. I'm not claiming I'm above anyone else. I'm on equal grounds and we act according to the policy. I made the call because no one else did, and because a long-time member, who had been there since before me, suggested I do so.

Part of good administration is enforcing the rules you create, instead of changing them when people complain. The rules were created from what our members said in a survey. Do you think it needs to be revised, or do you just think an exception needs to be made for one person? If you think it needs revising, let us know your ideas in a formal, civilised manner rather than going "OMFG you suck and everyone hates you and you don't know how to administrate." If the other admins are happy with it, I'm sure we'll run it by all the members of the Elite and see what they think.

Stating that everyone needs 60/60 just because Clemens does is hypocritical, and irrelevant. Clemens needs 60/60 because he lied. If he hadn't lied and he was proof called instead, it is hypocritical to claim everyone else needs 60/60 because everyone else is either nowhere near his rank, is actively providing proof, or already has a good proof history.

I'd like to point out the line where you say Clemens is a legit player. He just admitted to lying to the Elite. How on Earth can you come to that conclusion, without basing it all on a hunch or gut feeling? Why should his existing times be online and all of his new PR's have to be proven? How do we know every single unproven time isn't fake? My gut feeling says all his other times are legit as well, but gut feeling is not a valid method to determine whether someone is penalised or not.

I'll summarise the important parts of my post into a few bullet points (not in order of post):
 - I have no bias for or against Clemens
 - My gut feeling is that Clemens is legit
 - Gut feeling is nothing to judge a player by
 - The administration acts as a team
 - The policy was created from the views of the Elite members
 - If anyone thinks the policy should be changed, let us know

octoinky

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« Reply #28 on: October 13, 2007, 02:28:00 pm »
I think that the proof policy should be changed, and enforced better.

The problem is that it isn't followed for months, people get lax, then you try to enforce it and it is WAY too harsh.  If there was regular proof calls, constant administration/moderation over what needs to be proven, etc., people wouldn't fall into deep holes like they have in the past.

Yes, it is the players fault for not providing proof, yes everybody knows we need proof and it is in a policy, I just think that because we have problems with it, we could revisit it.


---------


My basic idea would revolve around the following:


Administrators let players know when they need to start taping 100% of their play.  This means that a player isn't shocked by a proof call, and is screwed because they weren't taping yet.  This would be like a 1 month heads up for an imminent proof call.

Administrators flag players who get a good PR based on their rank (im talking about a 30th ranked player pulling an 85+ point time or something - they might not be proving 100% yet at this rank) - if the player did not tape the run, there are a few actions that may be taken:

1)Roll back the time until the run is recreated.
2)Allow the time, and the player must provide "soft proof:" a rerun that is 1 second off, IMO, is proof of ability.
3)Let the player know that he may not IMPROVE that time without proof ever again.


If the run IS on tape, and we're talking about a mid-range player, let them know it is time to send their tapes out / make videos.  Give them 2 weeks, or something.



Now, when we're talking about the top 10, things are different.

A player should *always* be taping.  They should be allowed a few mistakes, technical mishaps, rerecords, etc., but for the most part these players really should be required to prove ~90% of PRs within a month.

Let players know AHEAD of time that a proof call will be coming, and it would be in their best benefit to prepare.  If proof is not met, recall times to the previous proven, or whatever you feel fit.  If they don't fully prove their timeset, use your best judgement on what should happen.  If they prove their WORST 40 PRs and leave the best 20 unproved, well thats a problem.  If its the other way around, I see no problem letting the bottom 20 slip through.



Concerning WRs, from this point on, every single WR needs to proved within 2 weeks, or it is rolled back.  Once a video is released, it may be reactivated obviously.  For WRs, recreating a run 1 second off to "show the ability" obviously doesn't cut it.  This includes Depot 26 agent.  Personally, if you think people are cheating, it more likely to be some chump claiming Depot 26 than a top 10 player fudging a few PRs.




This is not a full proposal of a system, however it is the basis for ideas that I have about proof.  It is possible for a mix of objective and subjective systems to succeed, but the key is constant intervention by the admins.

The updater could also use a formula and function to "flag" good PRs based on a players rank, and output those flagged times to the updater in a text file.  Then the admin wouldn't need to check PRs (if they are even posted in the topic), but rather could contant a player when they claim a great time.




This system does allow for a bit of leniency.  Yes, there are holes, but there are holes in today's system as well.  The bottom line is, this gives players a heads up before they need to tape, a reminder to tape, and reminds players that the-elite stands hard on proof without being unfair. It relies on a basis of trust until proven otherwise, however still ensures the validity of the WRs.



A system in which the moderators are working with the players hands-on on a weekly basis would be much more successful.






I haven't proofread the above, and it isn't complete as a proposal, however I hope the general idea is portrayed in a way that could be discussed.

vitor

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« Reply #29 on: October 13, 2007, 02:38:00 pm »
I agree with Brandon. It's really gay when someone lies about a WR, even if he admit it on the next day. Personally, I can't fully believe in a player who lied like that once, until I see the proof for it. For example, I will not believe in Clemens if he posts a 0:56 Jungle and says that for some reason he didn't tape or whatever. Even if he doesn't say anything about it, if the run doesn't come on the next pack of run to be captured, I'd really think that there's something wrong, rather than just being nice like "hey, let's give him another chance, he prolly forgot about it".

When Ryan lied about that Frigate record I used to think he was such a fag, like a loser who is not capable of getting a record and lying so other people over the internet think he's good. After a while that feeling about him was over and I'm sure that he won't do that anymore. I'm also sure that Clemens is learning something here and is sorry for what he did.

I'd really enjoy accurate rankings and I don't think Clemens is lying about anything, but something really has to be done in this case, or else this place would be in chaos. I'm with YE.


TheLegendaryPSR

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« Reply #30 on: October 13, 2007, 02:49:00 pm »
wouter is right. clemens is not the most impressive player here. he's a very good player, he's proved that.

and he is a baby. he cannot accept any time he doesn't get and cannot accept any time he does get. it's predictable that, whenever clemens gets a new PR, he claims it was faster than it actually was. it's just childish

Quote
Quote:
Also, I overreact to things during times I *should* be asleep.


don't we all :)

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« Reply #31 on: October 13, 2007, 05:00:00 pm »
grow up everyone
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Time was untied when set.

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« Reply #32 on: October 13, 2007, 06:09:00 pm »
Thaks for having my back Octo, and everyone else who is supporting me!

I do understand why people would be concerned if I have lied about a time , but I also dont understand why things have to be so harsh. I made a poor decision, and I cant do anything about that decision that I already made. However, I have proven myself since then, and I dont really think anybody doubts me any longer (not that I know of, anyway). I have been working to get every pr taped lately, and so far the only ones missing are times that I am going to beat or at least tie anyway. The only ones I dont plan on ever achieving again are Runway Agent 0:22 and Depot SA 0:43. I showed Bryan my best time of 43 and 22 on these levels, and if you like i can tape a depot 43 failure, and do a runway agent 23 with best time of 22, or something. But the bottom line is I dont plan on ever wasting my time regetting these times, when nobody doubts me in the first place. I know that sounds silly, but I am the kind of guy that doesnt like his times when he dupes them, and I think I would like 22 and 43 more if i never duped them, so that is my decision there.

HOWEVER, I will get everything else proven, probably within the next few months. I think I will send my next tape out sooner. But anyway, I have worked very hard to be 2nd place, and for that be taken away because of a moment of desperation and jealousy, would be kinda lame. I do beliece proof is something that should be taken seriously, but only so seriously. The way I see it, the only people who care about me not proving runway 22 are the mods, like Come and YE, maybe dark otto as well. Kinda funny how the players like Bryan, Ilari, Ryan, probably even I. dont even give a rats ass. I bet Wouter doesnt even care. So seriously, just let me off the hook with these, and I will return the favor by becoming 58/60 proven.
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Wouter Jansen

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« Reply #33 on: October 13, 2007, 06:18:00 pm »
eh you're so wrong about me. I think 22 is one of those times that require proof. and when it's something you rather don't be doing again it just means it's tougher and thus should have proof. and for the times that are easy, they should have proof since it's easy to do anyway so can't complain about that either. also, the more common a record gets, easy or not, if not everyone needs proof equally for those (like the first player needed it when it was untied to begin with..), then THAT is unfair and also encourages liars to claim these times and likely get away with it. so, if you don't get another 22, it should not be on the rankings, ever.
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« Reply #34 on: October 13, 2007, 06:30:00 pm »
Look, okay, i know my last post LOOKS bad, but think about it. I am a fairly proven guy, I mean I have proven my important stuff. Not everybody is in my situation, so jsut because I got away with not fully proving 2 wrs, doesnt mean others will try to do the same. You have to think about it like that. I have worked my ass off with this game for the past year to get 2nd place, I think I deserve better than to be stripped down to 100% provens after all that. I think everybdy here has gotten a break somewhere, and I think this should be mine.

Anyway wouter, Im pretty sure you never proved runway 00a 39, but i see that on the rankings! So you saying 39 is less important than 22 is pretty @#%$ hypocritical, when youre whole point of argument was that all times are important.
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RWG

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« Reply #35 on: October 13, 2007, 06:31:00 pm »
Hey Wouter, where's your Runway 00A 0:39 vid?  Wasn't that untied once upon a time?
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« Reply #36 on: October 13, 2007, 06:43:00 pm »
39 is easy, 22 is not.....

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« Reply #37 on: October 13, 2007, 06:44:00 pm »
What the @#%$ sense does that make? Saying 39 is easy and 22 is not is silly, because out there somewhere, someone might find 39 hard, so stop listing opinions as facts.
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Wouter Jansen

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« Reply #38 on: October 13, 2007, 06:45:00 pm »
lol and you guys think I care if its going back to 40? lol
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bcks

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« Reply #39 on: October 13, 2007, 07:01:00 pm »
Have you read this david?
the-elite.net/proofpolicy.html

It case you don't bother,
* No fully unproven tied WR claims will be allowed in the future (6 and 9 included).

octoinky

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« Reply #40 on: October 13, 2007, 07:37:00 pm »
You know how many unproved WRs there have been since that load of crap proof "policy" was made?  

The whole point is, it is unfair treatment if his times are removed and nobody else's are.

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« Reply #41 on: October 13, 2007, 07:43:00 pm »
Then do I have to prove my 0:06? Blimey.

/ Oh, cool.
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« Reply #42 on: October 13, 2007, 07:48:00 pm »
That "6" probably stands for: Defection Agent 0:06.

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« Reply #43 on: October 13, 2007, 08:52:00 pm »

This Discussion is going nowhere, since people started by saying Clemens should be activated, and now people are discussing which WR is harder to get.

I believe it is very, very childish of all those people complaining to the administrators the way they do. Those people are doing their best at keeping this a good functioning and trust worthy ranking, but all people do is complaining. We all know that non of our administrators is a son of the devil so there intentions will always be good, keep that in mind. All they get in return is people complaining and b*tching.

Where is the respect for the ones that put hours of work in keeping this community alive ?! In my opinion I can't believe YE is still contributing to this site, since all he gets in return for his hard work is people b*tching at him. We are better of calling ourselves lucky he didnt lost his patience yet with all those childeren screaming and complaining.

Whether you agree with the rules or not, show those guys some respect please. And f you don't agree, then stop argueing and make your points clear in a normal and respectful way. We all know that our administrators and everyone else are polite enough to just talk about it, explain things, etc. But the way some people behave......It's like they've lost their common sense....

Since day one that the first person lied to the Elite the current proof policy should have been used. top 15 should be 60/60 proven and thats it. Yeah it is f*cked up. It is! But then stop b*tching at YE and start b*tching at the people who really are the source of all those troubles: the LIARS.

Last comment: admi go on like you always did and keep up the good work. This place still rocks. I truly believe that you guys will come up with the best and appropriate solution of how to handle every future situation.

Now all angry ppl start complaining at my post if you want to because I dont care. Yeah I only play PD, I am ranked low, etc etc. There is your ammunition.

Your Eliteness

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« Reply #44 on: October 13, 2007, 09:00:00 pm »
The 6 and 9 in the policy are referring to Duel (EDIT: actually, it's Defection 6/Duel 9).

Octo, what's your proposed policy on people who've lied?

vitor

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« Reply #45 on: October 13, 2007, 09:25:00 pm »
Clemens, if you think that a 43 fail on depot will do it, you gotta be crazy. Specially on that level where almost everyone can fail 43. The point is: you LIED about one WR. You made EVERYONE that checks this forum regurarly to BELIEVE in your record. Maybe they've told other people like "hey, Clemens got this new Bunker 2 SA record, must've been an insane run". And then oops, where's the record?

Yeah, that 22 issue is a really bad thing. On a normal situation a very low 23 with 22 best time would do it, but you know what? Who guarantees that you haven't gamesharked the game because you had like 1000h of 23s in a row and felt that the game was being mean to you and you deserved the record? It's like totally stupid, but who knows? You've lied once.

That was a @#%$ retard attitude for someone who puts so many hours of his life into the game. We all know that you're gonna be at least 58/60, perhaps you'll even reget those two WRs, who knows? But personally I think that that kind of attidude of making people trust in you with faileds etc won't work, dude. You've showed yourself a person with a very weak mind, that complains about every record that you can't get (don't mix up this with your skill, which is like @#%$ impressive), so yeah, you're like capable of doing "passional" things.

Light

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« Reply #46 on: October 13, 2007, 09:37:00 pm »
Well said, Greg.

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« Reply #47 on: October 13, 2007, 11:36:00 pm »
Chewing out the admins and saying that they're doing a awful job is probably not the thing to do.  Obviously, there's some criticism of the proof policy and the way it's enforced.  

Telling the admins to clean up their act and telling them they're biased and don't know how to run things isn't the way to go about things.

Nobody is getting paid at this site.  None of the admins are being paid for their time and effort to keep up on proof and to update rankings and to put together activities that keeps this place alive and well even though the games we're playing came out frigging 10 years ago.

So telling the admins they suck isn't the thing to do.  It would be very easy for the admins to just say the hell with it, quit, and tell you guys to have fun figuring it all out.  In return, they get more free time.

Personally, I think things are done okay as far as proof goes.  The policy isn't strictly adhered to, and a lot of times this is probably due to the fact that to strictly enforce the policy would take more time and effort than it's worth.  They have jobs, they have school, they have social lives, and I'm sorry to say that sometimes those things end up having priority over enforcing a proof policy on a 10 year old video game for a dead system.

The fact that the admins DO give a crap and still devote their time to this place in return for nothing should tell you guys a lot.

So maybe the policy should be revised in light of all of this.  That's a legit question.  That can be discussed without reverting to namecalling and accusations.

In closing, I would like to take this chance to say to the NGC-Elite members the following:  Nobody's paying me for this crap.  The hell with it.  I quit.  Have fun figuring it out yourselves.  Looks like I just got myself some more free time.

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« Reply #48 on: October 14, 2007, 01:11:00 am »
videos for world records should be mandatory. if dave's 0:22 and 0:43 go up ill start claiming fake times too; because the tape broke, or i forgot to press record, or even more shamefully i got jealous. like, i just untied caverns agent last night but accidentally taped the news instead. if you guys want i can make a re-representation on paint, or you can just put it up knowing im a pretty trustworthy guy...

so: i like Clemens, but i don't like his actions towards 0:22 and 0:43. pull it together man.
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Jimbo

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« Reply #49 on: October 14, 2007, 05:16:00 am »
Dubovski, go eat a dick. Anyway, I saw Clemens play first hand and for as much proof as he provided, is it really that bad just to accept his claimed times (22 included) just for accurate rankings? I'm really in no mood to post an argumentive message (13 straight hours of poker and it's 4:16 AM), and mainly I just hate Silent Thunder, but cut Clemens a break :(