Author Topic: "New" guy here! (And :15 Archives theory)  (Read 1382 times)

Pdiddylight

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"New" guy here! (And :15 Archives theory)
« on: July 18, 2007, 07:16:00 am »
Hey all, I was a founding father way back in 2000 of the PD Elite.  I haven't even touched a n64 since about August/September of that year, when I withdrew from the elite.

However, I decided to dust off my n64 yesterday and popped in Goldeneye just for kicks.  So here I am, contemplating joining the GE Elite, without having touched that game in countless years, not to mention having a full time job now as well.

Obviously, I don't have massive amounts of time to dedicate to this, so I'm looking to start with the "easy" levels and go from there.  So yesterday I decided to give Archives Agent a try (after watching Boss's vid)

Very first run = :40. Within a half hour I was down to :28, and by the end of 2 hours I had hit :22.  I took a break, went out and ate dinner and got home and played for another 3 hours before going to bed.  In those hours I improved to a :21, and then :20. I actually rattled off about 5 :20 runs, 2 of which I encountered MAJOR problems (i.e. was on pace for :18, maybe :17 with boost).

Also, for the record, all of these times are on an old controller with 1.1 control style and minimal lookdown.  So that leads me too these questions:

1. I remember in PD, right about the time I was quitting, a controversy developed that 1.2 can and will achieve faster times than 1.1.  Is this true in GE also?  

2. How important is lookdown? I never used lookdown in PD, I never even though it would benefit...

3. Is :16 even possible without boost?  (Or even possible on an old joystick with 1.1?)

And finally, am I doing well for not having touched GE in 7 or 8 years?  I really thought I'd get an :18 yesterday, and I'm kinda considering it failure that I only got a :20...


--------- :15 possible? ------------

I will add a bit of "strategy" that I believe, in theory, would actually allow for a :15.  In watching Boss's :16 video on speedrunwiki, I noticed he only got one boost.  There's actually another fairly "common" boost (5-10% rate) that can be achieved on the level...

In the first room, you usually just jido chop the guy, grab the card and shoot out the door.  If you get hungup on the door, sometimes you get boosted to the stairwell by the other guard.  However, if you strafe perfectly, the guard will never hit you fast enough. These two effectively cancel each other out and there is no gain.

HOWEVER, you can do a little trick here that causes the guard to begin firing at you faster.  Usually the guard keys on your "chop".  If you are extremely fast/lucky, you can actually throw the chop, pick up the ammo, connect with the chop, and get boosted out the room in full strafe.  This works because the guard will actually key on you slightly faster, because he keys on the ammo pickup rather than the killing of the guard.  I managed this once yesterday, and was able to ride the boost to the middle of the stairwell, which saves at least .2 seconds I'd assume.

Note that in goldeneye it takes 3 chops to kill the guard if you throw the chop AFTER picking up the ammo.  You have to be able to throw the chop, pick up the ammo and then connect with the chop to still kill the guy in one hit.  

If this has already been discussed, forgive me.  I'm seeking help from the board, so I figured the least I could do is share some strategy.


Narigutita

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« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2007, 08:16:00 am »
hi there lighty, nice to see somebody dusting their 64 off!
well, first of all welcome back!
i'm no GE player, so i'll just answer what i can until some good player steps by
yes, 1.2 is much better, i found it faster, and 1.1 hurt my finger much more (1.2 is faster cause you get full speed with shitty controllers, and you never leave front speed go while turning)

i think lookdown is even more important on GE in general, especially on a short level, where every tent counts

and yes, some top guys did several 16 already, some of them i think with no boost

some discussion was made about 15, but i'll wait for GE players for that =P
-Narigutita

Pdiddylight

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« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2007, 09:01:00 am »
Well thanks for the input.  I tried doing 1.2 before, and I just can't even function with it.  How do you shoot (with Z) when you are gripping the two outer grips?!? It doesn't seem natural, but then again I've logged god knows how many hours between both PD and GE on 1.1 ....

Lovins

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« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2007, 12:59:00 pm »
:16 with regular 1.1 could be impossible, I'm not sure. The thing with picking up the ammo first I actually do a lot not on purpose cuz my strafing in the first room sucks lol, but I still basically never get a boost if I get out the door clean and fast. Maybe I've gotten like 1 in the on and off days I've been trying for :16 over the past month. Yeah lookdown is pretty important in archives, especially in the library area. Btw I use 1.1 cruise control for archives, which generates the same effect on turns as 1.2.

Thiradell

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« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2007, 12:59:00 pm »
Well, you explained something to me. Why the slap kills the guard sometimes and why it doesn't.

And that is a good idea. That would make three boosts possible (out the door, the guard that opens the single door for you, and at the end). Considering 0:16 has been done with no boosts, that would make at least very low 0:16 possible, and I could see 0:15 happening.

I'm not gonna do it, though.
nothin' moves me more than a groove that soothes me
nothin' soothes me more than a groove that boosts me
nothin' boosts me more, or suits me beautifully
there's nothin' you can do to me; stab me, shoot me

Infected Mind

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« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2007, 01:05:00 pm »
basically you only get that boost if you go slow or take a bad angle out the door
AKA: l34ss l3oost
AKA: AlexWAnderson

Pdiddylight

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« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2007, 02:20:00 pm »
Usually, yes you only get that boost when you mess up.  I did however get the boost one time on a flawless first room execution (on 1.1), and I was amazed.  The key is to get the ammo before the keycard.

You may be right though, because if I was doing 1.1 CC I may have just been fast enough to not get boosted.  I'll be trying archives tonight on 1.1 CC...

Also, how do you guys strafe while looking at the ground so well?  The game always tries to make me look up, so I'm sure I'm loosing time between the head nods up and down.  It seems like everytime I go through the library, I have to fight the game to keep me looking at the ground...

Lovins

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« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2007, 02:28:00 pm »
Turn off "Look ahead" in the controller settings.

Wouter Jansen

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« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2007, 02:29:00 pm »
it is worth it to lose time in order to gain time if the gain is superior.
sexy, this

Narigutita

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« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2007, 05:56:00 pm »
or maybe just go fast and hope for the boost
it may take a lot more, but...
the boost could "fix" bad runs too
-Narigutita

SimThreat

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« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2007, 01:16:00 am »
Omg this is the best strat ever....

Of course... I did write a complete walkthrough on archives that mentions this about 5 years ago.

It's ok though, you'll get there.

Henning Blom

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« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2007, 02:45:00 am »
I never ever had a two boost run when i was going for 16...

SupaOdin

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« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2007, 03:07:00 am »
Archives 15 needs 2/3 boosts of course. All the hours I have played (many), I have never had a 2 boost 16. So imo, 15 ain't happenin.

Imperfect Clark

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« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2007, 05:18:00 am »
Nice to see you back playing, man.
Derek Clark

"i'm 1.1 in my hart, u know that" - Matthijs ten Ham.

Thiradell

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« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2007, 09:58:00 pm »
Bryan's 0:16 had two boosts.
nothin' moves me more than a groove that soothes me
nothin' soothes me more than a groove that boosts me
nothin' boosts me more, or suits me beautifully
there's nothin' you can do to me; stab me, shoot me

Infected Mind

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« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2007, 12:46:00 am »
No it didnt, It had one boost if you know what you are at all talking about. Illu had 2 boost on his 16 though:b
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SpiderWaffle

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« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2007, 01:29:00 am »
See should how easy a 15 is on a TAS first.

Thiradell

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« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2007, 05:42:00 pm »
Oh, yeah. I've seen Illu's too, and I guess I confused the two.
nothin' moves me more than a groove that soothes me
nothin' soothes me more than a groove that boosts me
nothin' boosts me more, or suits me beautifully
there's nothin' you can do to me; stab me, shoot me

RWG

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« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2007, 01:53:00 am »
I did 16 with 1.1 CC and a really crappy control stick I'd rate about 3/10.  I got a new one shortly thereafter.

I do believe in making small strafe line adjustments to get boosts though, like on streets or s1.  Could work here I guess too but I think we're overanalyzing it all, its just 15 :P
"I want to be defined by the things that I love. Not the things I'm afraid of, or the things that haunt me in the middle of the night.  I just think that, you are what you love."  Taylor Swift, Daylight.

【 Verax Maneret 】

Simon-Sternis

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« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2007, 07:26:00 am »
Arnaud's 16 has 2 boosts too.

deletedprofile.u

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« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2007, 08:30:00 pm »
Nice experiences there.  Got 1:19 on DLTK Archives.  Trying to normal speed straf is too hard for this old man.