The Cinema Show

[Matis]

yeah once i get archives 00 55 i'll probably try some more levels using cinema mode.

[DrugAgainstAngst]

Cinema wasnt meant to be used in normal gameplay. It was only included to accomodate people with very large TV screens. Strafe is a general function the makers intended to be included (granted the runstrafe is a bug, but they were just too lazy to get rid of that or something).

I just feel like Cinema shouldnt be counted.

[Wouter Jansen]

once again, you're just scared of it's impact, and not being able to get some wrs later on if you don't use it aswell (or having a much harder time).

[outdrawed]

You just don't feel like putting the time and effort into learning it.

I don't feel like putting the time and effort into learning 1.2, but it's silly not to include it in the rankings.

[TheLegendaryPSR]

taking the time to learn it is maybe 5 or 10 minutes at the max.

saying it shouldn't be counted just because you don't want to use it is ridiculous.

the aztec glitch(i know i keep using this, but it's the best example of the game mechanics being manipulated without cheating) wasn't meant to be used in normal gameplay, but that's allowed

1.2 was only made to accomodate people more used to using the turok-style control, but that's allowed

cruise control wasn't meant to be used in normal gameplay but that's allowed too

the list of tricks people take advantage of which "wasn't meant for normal gameplay" is endless. but they are advantages ALL of us can use, so there isn't an issue.

[DrugAgainstAngst]

CC is probably the biggest reason I quit 1.1. Not only is it just a stupid concept, but you cannot even move backwards or anything. Just a nuisance more than anything.

I like Turok anyway so 1.2 came like a breeze for me.

I probably will use cinema at some point or another, if just to test it out. I am a bit skeptical or whether it makes x time possible or not though. I mean nothing seems to have even been proven.

[TheLegendaryPSR]

yeah that bugs me about CC too, but to be fair i only use it on levels where i don't need to move backwards(and probably screws me over on streets)

i use 1.2 on duke nukem mostly and is one of 3 styles i use for doom 64, don't know why i didn't stick with it for goldeneye

i'm skeptical about it being a factor on streets, and i would rather beat 2 minutes without it but i've wanted under 2 on streets for so long now i don't care how i get it

[Matis]

maybe your just to lazy to turn it on

[Henning Blom]

"it's a waste of time. it's not like the advantages PAL perfect dark players have"

eh?

[TheLegendaryPSR]

well on perfect dark there is a PAL and NTSC rankings page because of levels like Deep Sea

[vitor]

Everything else is better (or same) on NTSC.

[Boss]

Has anyone tried cinema for PD yet?

[TheLegendaryPSR]

i tried it on carrington but it didn't have much of an effect for me.

it might do for better players though

[dragondragon18]

You guys use widescreen on investigation, right?

[Boss]

Yeah but that was more for the purpose of getting a faster bot (along with hi res).

[Wyst3r]

Someone should test this on Surface, i mean that's the biggest strafing only level in the game(along with streets) and if Cinema saves time on the strafing part which is what i believe then it should be pretty damn obvious on Surface. Especially if you turn on invincibility and do 2 similar no boost runs.

[Narigutita]

well, you have the clock of TTs on PD, so it might be easier to check those

[Henning Blom]

I didnt manage any good when I tried villa with cinema and it felt more laggy
though it may be that Im not used to it...

[Boss]

Could be just levels with a lot of close walls.  Villa is pretty wide open early on anyway.

[Henning Blom]

WAR is nothing but corridors and walls, I can try it, I still havent got 46 on special agent so I need to get back there someday anyways  

if cinema helps there then 19 first door should be pretty cake

[Matt-Cook1]

Over a 34 second course on Maian SOS, involving only 1 turn and no opportunity for error, full screen was 0.03 seconds faster than cinema.

[Wouter Jansen]

I think things like these should be decided in a TAS by professional TAS'ers.

[PerfectTaste]

I think Axels gameshark would be great to test the amount of lag with cinema/widescreen vs. normal. You can get special meters and the percent of speed the game is running in.

Still maybe the amount of lag is not so big at Surface 1 or Streets in normal, widescreen and cinema might just be like 1 or 2 % faster (game speed).

[silver angel]

Unlike most tricks that help improving speed, I find this one a bit special and feel quite like DAA. Not that I think we should do separate rankings or forbid this, but this is regrettable that there is actually a difference. If the positive aspect is that it will probably help some of us to get new WR (Streets, Archives), that's totally unfair for times like Bunker 2 Agent 0'24, since we will never know whether they would have stayed untied forever or not (the same may go for Streets 1'13).

Also 2% faster is one second every 50 seconds, what makes more than 1 second on Streets (almost 2 for 00). Even if the percentage is lower, it makes a true difference, as we all know the importance of tenths...

[Brucmack]

If it is lag reduction that causes the savings, then it's not going to help to do a TAS comparison, because lag is a different factor when running the game in an emulator...

[PerfectTaste]

I didn't mean it was 2% faster. Just that the game could lag like 2-3% less with widescreen/cinema. That's just reduced lag. Minimum gain on levels like Surface 1 or Streets.

[Arnaud-Nativel]

Bunker 2A 0'22 quitout (cinema) *

[outdrawed]

I'm curious if all you naysayers would be feeling the same way if Cinema was "discovered" back in 2001.

[AEB]

Cinema is great

[Henning Blom]

Just stupid to argue if cinema should be allowed or not, and it SHOULD. Its a option, just like 1.2 is. And its a choise to use/not to use it, it shouldnt be that hard to learn, a hour at most. And there are already several players that are using cinema, should they get banned just becuase of that?

And yeah, maybe records like b2 agent 24 and streets 1.13 gets easier to tie becuase of the use of cinema, it shouldnt matter when we all know that bryans 24 and wouters 1.13 was the better runs becuase of not using this little timesaver. Its exactly as b1 agent case.

[Infected Mind]

I could do b2 24 without cinema. Bryan got lucky on his 24. You can argue this, but his speed is very bad, but he had a great guard, and one of the best boosts in ge history, only to barely manage a 24. Though I am sure he could do it again if he really bothered.

Im the most skilled b2 agent player by far. Not to sound cocky or anything, but yeah I can piss out 25s every other run no problem etc. I have almost 400 of them. Bryan had like 10. Just he had the right condiitons happen for him very quickly.

I have 9! 22 quitouts where i am point blank at the keyguard, I kill him, and he gives me only klobbs. I have around 80+ 22 quit outs where either i killed him from to far so his weapons couldnt reach me, or whatever other reason.

Cinema is just a better style on b2 a, and archives. The mishkin door on archives can be pwned hardcore with cinema like none other.

I dont feel like Im cheating using this, hell I should have had 24 eons ago, and im just unlucky as hell and I just deserve this wr.  

When I get my 24, Im sure it will look heaps better then bryans, But maybe ill have no boost, or a worse keyguard. Or maybe ill fluke 23, Its not out of the question.

[Boss]

Why don't you just say that about my other 59 runs..

[vitor]

That "I deserve this WR" is crap. Or else everybody could just get anything they wanted, just cuz they wanted it. You didn't get 24 yet because Bryan's better. Maybe if you got the right conditions and then you missed warp, whose fault would've it been? Your "bad luck" again? Anyway, that just shows how good that 24 is.

[Infected Mind]

Variables are similar to frigate

Say someone got 23 in 1 hour. Means hes more skilled then wouter cause he got it faster?  nope, just the right variables occured on that run.

Ive had all variables out of my control go wrong to cost me many 24s. the warp has been a factor 1 time, thats my fault. the others are beyond my control.

[flukey lukey]

i honestly think i deserve Caverns 1:02 but hey

[dragondragon18]

Sounds like enough want to me.  Congrats on your new untied  homeonice .

[Henning Blom]

its also your own fault if you dont manage the "one slap kill", maybe one of those runs had the variables you want.

[Infected Mind]

The slap isnt an issue for me really, about 90% of the time i get it with 1.2  about 99% with 1.1

[RWG]

Quote:Why don't you just say that about my other 59 runs..

Cause it only applies to about 40 of the 60 PRs you have.

Quote:That "I deserve this WR" is crap.

You're absolutely retarded.  This shows you have absolutely no knowledge about anything in this, or any other speedrunning game.  It must be a total fluke you are in 5th in PD.  I guess being a fluke entirely then shows how you dont understand flukes and don't really deserve anything.  Whatever, not like I care.



LIKE @#%$ MAN.  TO SAY BOSS IS BETTER AT b2 A YOURE A @#%$ RETARD.  GO KILL YOURSELF YOURE GOING NOWHERE IN LIFE


I hate everybody

[Henning Blom]

Nice consistency Alex...keep going...Im sure you'll make it  

anyways...tried some war with cinema, it didnt gave me some cracy tt's so maybe its a ge only thing   but first kingshot pwns with cinema!

[vitor]

Quote:You're absolutely retarded. This shows you have absolutely no knowledge about anything in this, or any other speedrunning game. It must be a total fluke you are in 5th in PD. I guess being a fluke entirely then shows how you dont understand flukes and don't really deserve anything. Whatever, not like I care.

 Funny. I'm 5th because: 1. I suck, 2. I can't play much anymore. I'm good with that, and I'll never act like anyone above or with a better record than me sucks or whatever. The way you act sometimes makes me sick. Like when you faked the Frigate 1:01. It was just ridiculous, and showed how you lack of self-steem, and all you want is people to suck your dick for your WR.

[Wouter Jansen]

I've been to the cinema alot!

[Illu]

Try playing GE there next time.

[silver angel]

Outdrawed, as a "naysayer" ( ), I wanted to tell you that of course this wouldn't have been very much the same if the cinema had been discovered in 2001, and that I would have been less "against".
And yes there's no reason to ban players for this or say it's not legit since it is an in-game option.
I just wanted to point out 2 things: first, it's hard to change our references and think some actual untied may be lost in other cinema times; secondly, this option has something strange to me, but I guess it's personal: I've got the impression that it's a bit like "degrading" the game (by playing on a smaller surface) in order to improve one's times...
However, once Streets and Bunker 2 Agent will be several ways untied, I guess I'll have kind of accept that "cinema show"...


One last thing Alex, I don't know who is the best at Bunker 2 Agent, but saying that Bryan speed was very bad on his 24 and it was due to luck was one of the lamest thing ever, and doesn't make you seem better to my eyes. Usually, the least a player takes long to get a time, the more talented he is, and it's also a bit easy to say other players have better times because they are luckier. Besides, it has often been said that Bryan's runs looked "slower" than what they actually were. I believe you if you say that you *should* have had this already (before getting it), but if 24 has remained untied for so long, that's not because of its very bad speed. And I don't see 10% of the luck of Frigate in Bunker 2 Agent.
Now, congrats for getting it, but I truly regret you got it with cinema if you could have done it without, since I bet 24 is gonna become "common".

[flukey lukey]

Quote:I've been to the cinema alot!

i didn't know they showed lesbian porn at the cinema

[Saint Shang]

He doesn`t go for the lesbian porn, he goes to watch the gay men gettin it on in the backrow.

[Wouter Jansen]

if 'watch' means 'kills them to obtain secret GE WRs', then sure.

Quote:I truly regret you got it with cinema if you could have done it without, since I bet 24 is gonna become "common".

eh.. if it's gonna be common anyway, why make it extra hard on yourself?

[RWG]

Quote:but saying that Bryan speed was very bad on his 24 and it was due to luck was one of the lamest thing ever,

THE TRUTH IS LAME.  DEAL WITH IT.

Quote:And I don't see 10% of the luck of Frigate in Bunker 2 Agent.

That's also untrue. At least it's not true when you're going for some of the best WRs in GE.

To a n00b or a sucky player who is getting like, a 90 point time or less, then frigate's luck is gayer.  But once you're actually going for WRs you will find that every other level has almost as much luck needed for a WR, as frigate.

It's just all knowledge and people who haven't played the game so long shouldn't be talking about it.



and btw I asked Wouter once what the levels you need the most skill on were once (and thus the least luck)

he said Silo and Frigate.  I probably have the conversation log saved somewhere but whatever.

[Boss]

If you want me to leave the elite, I will.  I'm really sick of some of these comments lately.  I've done more than enough for you people and now you're just bashing me left and right.  I can't help I did some of this stuff YEARS ago and have a high tendency to make runs look bad on a PR run.  I still think I do stuff that no one can comprehend that gains time (even if a little bit) that allows me to make a big mistake and still get the same time.  Just be happy I ever came to the elite because the total time would be much higher for sure.

[Wouter Jansen]

sure you may have been lucky with several of your times (by getting it sooner than one would expect it to take), but we sure as hell are lucky to have you here.

besides that, I'm happy like no other that I have someone that truly understands me (GE-wise) and is easily one of my best buddies here, if not the best.